Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® Lees (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 18:36 GMT

I need help!

How do I put the following thing into my calculator?

(1/4)ln((N to the power 1/2)-1)

I'm innumerate so will need the precise buttons to press in the correct order.

Ta!

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® MalB (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:06 GMT

what calculator? if it's got brackets then exactly that order but use 0.25 and 0,5 .

To the power is x^y

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® Lees (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:08 GMT

thanks! Now I just need to understand the genetics mumbo jumbo

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® MalB (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:09 GMT

alternatively

N x^y .5 = -1 = ln / 4

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Iscandar (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:22 GMT

Lees do it in Excel it is a bit easier to follow it up.
Sometimes different calculators behave differently and get all upset if you press a different sequence (some old ones still work with polish notation)! I find CASIOs' are shite for example.

Why on earth are you doing that anyway???

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® MalB (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:24 GMT

Iscy, that's why I suggested using the brackets first.

Both sets of keystrokes above will work on the built-in calculator in Windows.

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Iscandar (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:27 GMT

Oh stop it you anal git!

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® MalB (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:27 GMT

Leave my private life out of this

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Iscandar (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:32 GMT

I just guessed!

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® Lees (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:37 GMT

Cool I got it. Is it possible to invert the formula?

It's a genetics thing for working out how many mutants you need to change a light bulb

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Iscandar (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:43 GMT

Christ woman, can't you just get them to light a candle!

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® Tintin (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:44 GMT

For some you don't even have to light the candle.
Christ was a woman?

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® MalB (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:45 GMT

If X = (1/4)ln((N^^1/2)-1)

N = ((e^^4x)+1)^^2 I think but get someone to verify that

^^ => to the power

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Iscandar (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:45 GMT

But God is a black lesbian ergo.....she lights it with her arse.

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Iscandar (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 19:51 GMT

I think it is correct if ln is base 'e' and not '10'.

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® Lees (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 20:12 GMT

Right now the real tester.

If gene A and gene B are close together on a chromosome they are often inherited together, and if they are far apart, they are not often inherited together.

X = the distance from gene A within which gene B does not lie

N = the proportion of individuals that have not inherited the 2 genes together.

Is it possible to work out the distance within which gene B does lie, if N proportion of individuals have not inherited the 2 genes together.

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® dancesliketwat (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 20:23 GMT

Ln is Napierian or natural log, so I guess that's not to the base 10, then. But i haven't done this stuff for years, so I couldn't tell you if it's correct, or not.

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Iscandar (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 20:48 GMT

Do you know what the typical X in the N people is?

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® Lees (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 20:56 GMT

According to this damn article, with a population (N)of 50, if 18 individuals inherit the genes individually then X is greater than or equal to 0.45.

Which still sounds like gobbledegook to me, despite having been staring at it for the last 4 hrs!

There's another example - if N = 100 apparently 40 individuals need to inherit the genes seperately to make X = 0.55

I'm feeling very stupid today.

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Iscandar (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 21:09 GMT

Mumble mumble
If you use the formula you mentioned with N=50 you obtain 0.45

and with N=100 you get 0.549 looks ok to me what'e the problem?

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® Lees (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 21:20 GMT

Well that tells me within what distance gene B doesn't lie for a certain no of ppl. I want to know if I have say 125 dudes, all of which inherited both genes together, within what distance from gene A, gene B lies.

And my head now hurts.

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® TTG (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 21:31 GMT

Lees, if you shut your eyes, click your heels together three times and shout "Satyricon", you might get the answer.

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Paris (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 21:33 GMT

Posted my observation in the other room, Lees.
Basically it says that x is the distance within which B doesn't lie. The formula tells you nothing about the distance within which it does lie, so you can't calculate it. It's somewhere (mathematically) between infinity and x.

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Iscandar (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 21:37 GMT

Oi Paris

I want to know too! Where's this 'other room' place?

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Paris (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 21:39 GMT

You can't go in there, Iscander, it's for girlies.
Click on Diva Blue Room below.

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® Wanderer through eternity (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 21:43 GMT

ow my head just exploded whose going to clean that up

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Iscandar (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 21:43 GMT

Darling I marched under the lezbiots' banner at the pride... I am an honourary lady!

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Paris (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 21:51 GMT

Whoops, sorry I misspelled your name. Good one though. Very Mary Renault.

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
¿ mouse (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 23:08 GMT

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
*splutter!*

Hmmmm, whassat???? Someone mention Levis????

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® MalB (in the United Kingdom) 16 Dec 2002 at 23:43 GMT

Ln is indeed Napierian logs which is base e. I think.

Base 10 is Log

Paris, somewhere between 0 and x rather than infinity and x so you can compute the maximum distance, I think.

But bear in mind 1) I'm fissed as a part, 2) this is O-grade maths which is more than 25 years ago for me, 3) I never did any biology

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® Tintin (in the United Kingdom) 17 Dec 2002 at 00:01 GMT

Meaning you haven't spawned?

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® dancesliketwat (in the United Kingdom) 17 Dec 2002 at 00:11 GMT

I suppose undergoing fission would make you a weapon of mass destruction. Based on supporting information gathered in Manchester, i would hide from George Dubbya, if I were you!

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
theseus@work (in the United Kingdom) 17 Dec 2002 at 08:21 GMT

Tsk, a busy time at work, and coursework marking at home keeps me out of here for a day and a half and I miss all the fun!!

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Iscandar (in the United Kingdom) 17 Dec 2002 at 11:15 GMT

This will teach you about priorities!

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® Mabel (in the United Kingdom) 17 Dec 2002 at 11:36 GMT

I *told* him there was a Maths thread too.

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Lees in lab (in the United Kingdom) 18 Dec 2002 at 17:03 GMT

I did almost come running round to your house theseus, but it was cold and dark.

I opted eventually for the give up and ignore option and removed the offending sentence from my thesis. Bloody professors don't half have some silly ideas at times - I mean telling me I should go and include nasty things like the above indeed!

Anyway, it's churning out of the printer now for the penultimate time! The next will be at the printers

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
Anonymous 19 Dec 2002 at 01:58 GMT

I'm dumb.

alt + 0188?

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® Mabel (in the United Kingdom) 19 Dec 2002 at 10:21 GMT

¼ ?

Re: Anyone in here at the mo with A-level maths knowledge?
® Satyricon (in the United Kingdom) 23 Dec 2002 at 03:02 GMT

Ah, only just seen this, sorry ... I could have helped but MalB and Iscy did a stirling job by the look of it.

Msg me if I can do anything!