Marks & Benders
L.I. (in the United Kingdom) 26 Dec 2001 at 20:32 GMT

WOMEN staff at a Marks & Spencer store are in revolt because a gender-bender worker is allowed
to use their loo.

Blonde ex-bouncer Blane Ordever, 38, has also been given a locker in the female changing room.

The former bodybuilder wears full make-up, hair extensions, black nail-varnish and high heels on the
tills at the shop in Guildford, Surrey.

He has even changed his first name to Bea by deed-poll. Divorced Ordever, who lives with a woman
teacher, said last night: “My bosses have been very supportive of me.

“I’m proud of the way I look and I have got nothing to hide.

“I feel attractive — although I’m hardly Claudia Schiffer.”

But one of his female colleagues hit back: “This is political correctness gone mad.

“As far as we are concerned Bea is a man — and we don’t want him in the women’s rest-rooms or loos.”


Burly Ordever had months of hormone treatment to develop 36C boobs. And last night he insisted: “I
am a woman and I sit on the loo like all the other girls.

“I look like a woman and I feel like a woman, so how can I possibly use the gents?

“Obviously not everyone will agree with me but I wasn’t aware there had been any complaints.

“The bosses seem very supportive of me and if a few women have moaned about me using their loo, I
assume the managers choose not to tell me so I wouldn’t get offended.”

But one M&S girl said: “Several members of staff have been severely castigated for objecting to
Bea.

“Male staff members also feel threatened by what they see as a sexual oddity. They don’t want him in
their loo either — but no one wants to lose their jobs by objecting too vociferously.”

Another said: “Female staff will not go to the loo while a man is present and have refused to take
breaks at the same time as Bea.

“The kinder members of staff think Bea is a very sad individual and that M&S are off their
collective trolley.”

Ordever got his job on the food hall tills in Guildford, Surrey, at a recruiting weekend a month
ago.

He insisted: “I was very upfront about my situation during my interviews. One of the female
personnel managers took me into a private room and asked, ‘Do you want to be treated as a woman?’

“I remember thinking, ‘I’ve got a good pair of boobs and I’m wearing more make-up than you’. “But I
simply replied, ‘Yes, because that’s what I am’.

“I didn’t think for a minute I would get the job and was absolutely thrilled when I was hired.”

Ordever lives with teacher Maggie Hughes, 48, in Aldershot, Hants. They met after his three-year
marriage ended in 1994.

He previously worked at a computer firm but quit after “coming out” as a woman in April.

He said: “Ironically, there was a problem at my previous company over loos so I used the disabled
toilet to avoid creating a fuss.”

Ordever is having two minor sex ops next year but is not planning to have a full sex-change.

He said: “I describe myself as a lesbian trapped in a man’s body.

“But the girls at work have nothing to worry about because Maggie is the love of my life.”

Re: Marks & Benders
Iceman (in the United Kingdom) 26 Dec 2001 at 20:55 GMT

I know what paper you buy LI. LOL the family were not happy when they read that......

Iceman
x

Re: Marks & Benders
L.I. (in the United Kingdom) 26 Dec 2001 at 21:03 GMT

hehehe! I just love the way the sun reports some stories. although i can quite understand the
workers revolting. NOT, because of him being given a locker in the female changing rooms and or
using the female toilets, but because coming from Guildford, and having shopped at the store in
question, I can confirm that the majority of staff there are so stuck up about 'things like that'
that the outcry doesn't surprise me in the least. I think its great that he's being allowed to use
the womens facilities.

Re: Marks & Benders
Iceman (in the United Kingdom) 26 Dec 2001 at 21:05 GMT

I don't know to be honest, he is still a he and I'm not a fan of mixed sex changing rooms, what if a
woman was dressing and living as a man should she be allowed to use men's changing rooms?

How if he had had the full sex change I don't see the problem myself

ICemanx

Re: Marks & Benders
L.I. (in the United Kingdom) 26 Dec 2001 at 21:08 GMT

Sure, if she's living as a man i don't see why not. Don't know a lot about the subject to be honest,
but don't people having sex changes go through some sort of therapy sort of thing where they live
as a man or woman to get used to it? If that is the case, then it would help them if they could use
the relevant facilities.

Re: Marks & Benders
Iceman (in the United Kingdom) 26 Dec 2001 at 21:22 GMT

Yeah I can understand it from that point of view but in the eyes of the law he is still a man until
the op. (Is that right???) and if that is the case it would be a mixed sex changing room, would it
not? My mum used to help out at the UCLH which does a lot of sex changes and was talking to 1 of
the women in there and she said if she new now much pain it would be having the change she would
never have done it.

Not something I could do or want to do

Iceman
x

Re: Marks & Benders
® MalB @ Work (in the United Kingdom) 27 Dec 2001 at 12:39 GMT

Iceman, in the eyes of the law he will still be a man after the op.

Re: Marks & Benders
¿ Bee (in the United Kingdom) 27 Dec 2001 at 13:16 GMT

It would be grossly humiliating to force this women to use the men's toilets and changing rooms,
which is unnacceptable. As far as I'm concerned the female staff at that shop need a good kick up
the backside and their eyes opening up a bit, the narrow minded bigoted sods.

Re: Marks & Benders
® Iceman (in the United Kingdom) 27 Dec 2001 at 16:06 GMT

MalB: really? I thought that the law had changed on that?

Bee: The thing is he is not a woman yet, from what I read, so what if another man decided that he
wanted to get changed in the female changing room, would that be ok?

Iceman
x

Re: Marks & Benders
® MalB @ Work (in the United Kingdom) 27 Dec 2001 at 18:39 GMT

Iceman, I think some of the employment protection and discrimination laws have changed but, for
example, his passport will always say that he is male and he won't be able to marry a man

Re: Marks & Benders
® Iceman (in the United Kingdom) 27 Dec 2001 at 18:51 GMT

that I did not know MalB, I thoguht they could marry just not in a church, I've learnt something
today

Iceman
x

Re: Marks & Benders
® Bee (in the United Kingdom) 27 Dec 2001 at 23:53 GMT

No, she's not a man, she just has a male body. Difference.

Re: Marks & Benders
® Jes (in the United Kingdom) 28 Dec 2001 at 00:21 GMT

Did u know that transexuals are now protected from discrimination, under British employment law, but
us benders aren't yet? I dunno how far they have had to have gone in their treatment though.

Re: Marks & Benders
Anonymous 28 Dec 2001 at 13:24 GMT

excuse me but this "person" is not a woman. it is a man, a man, who wants to be in his opinion a
"woman".

how come you never see tomboy transvestites/ mfm ts etc? if these people wants to be female how come
90% of M2F TSs dont want to get rid of birth genitalia? erm sorry chicks with dicks but real
women dont have penises its nothing to do with finances either. many simply want to escape being
labelled gay men or maculinity.

Re: Marks & Benders
Anonymous 28 Dec 2001 at 13:28 GMT

the truth is both str8 and gay men have a very warped view on womanhood. there is no such thing as
how to be a woman any more than there is how to be a man. i cringe when i see these m2f tvs/ cross
dressers/ drag queens/ transsexuals on chat shows saying "i always knew i was female because.....i
prefered cooking to sport (erm many women love sport many men love cooking)/ i loved wearing frilly
dresses ( many women nowadays dress pretty much androgenously)etc.

the truth is men have a warped view on what a woman should be. its crap.

Re: Marks & Benders
Anonymous 28 Dec 2001 at 13:31 GMT

LOL at my last comment:

*correction*
their view is crap

Re: Marks & Benders
® Iceman (in the United Kingdom) 28 Dec 2001 at 13:40 GMT

ermmmm I hate to sound think here Bee but I thought someone sex (ect if there are male or female)
is based on their body and what ermmmm equipment they have?

Am I missing somehting?

Iceman
x

Re: Marks & Benders
® random (in the United Kingdom) 28 Dec 2001 at 13:47 GMT

I think the legal system is mostly based on what sex you were identified as on your birth
certificate. There have been a few cases where genitalia haven't developed properly, and someone
with XY chromosomes has been identified as a woman, or vice versa, in which case it is possible to
change the birth certificate; but some TSs tried to get this changed in the courts recently
(because the gender of the person you're allowed to marry is determined by what gender you are
according to your birth certificate) and the judge ruled that birth certificates recorded gender at
birth, so could not be changed. The only way in which a M2F TS could be legally identified as a
woman would be to change the law, and make birth certificates less legally binding in matters of
gender.

Re: Marks & Benders
® Iceman (in the United Kingdom) 28 Dec 2001 at 13:53 GMT

I'm still shocked as I thought that after the operation you was legally a woman or a man depending
on what sex you are after the op.

Iceman
x

Re: Marks & Benders
® Bee (in the United Kingdom) 28 Dec 2001 at 14:19 GMT

But that's not my point - I'm talking about emotion, and feeling here, not biology. Why might
someone not want to lop their dick off and go through painful and risky reconstructive surgery? I
can think of several reasons.

Re: Marks & Benders
® Iceman (in the United Kingdom) 28 Dec 2001 at 14:30 GMT

ok my point is you can not call yourself a woman if you have (and sorry to be cude) a cock and
balls.

I would accept and admit to people that have a woman's mind trapped in a mans body or VV. but that
still makes them a man. I would be the first people to call this man a woman if and when he has to
operation.

Iceman
x

Re: Marks & Benders
¿ mouse (in the United Kingdom) 30 Dec 2001 at 10:45 GMT

Anon, I completely agree with you - it winds me up too when I see TVs/TSs/TGs saying "I always knew
I was a woman because I liked playing with dollies etc", but thankfully my experience of this
subject is now a bit wider than fucking Jerry Springer!!
I suggest, that if you take any real interest in the subject, that you read some of the numerous
resources on the net that give a serious insight into the subject - rather than holding onto your
populist and totally insulting views.